REBECCA CHELMINSKY | kodawa-tribute

INTERVIEW WITH

REBECCA POLLACK CHELMINSKY

June 19, 2006 | Mexico City, Mexico

Interview Conducted by Alexander Chelminsky, her nephew

Translation Provided by Mr. Carlos Bazan, Christopher Newport University

ALEX: It is June 20, 2006. I am sitting here with my aunt, Rebecca Pollack Chelminsky, and we’re going to talk a little bit about her life. Aunt, where were you born?

REBECCA: I was born in Minsk, Russia.

ALEX: In what year?

REBECCA: In 1914.

ALEX: Exactly when the war started, right?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Do you remember your years in Minsk?

REBECCA: Yes, because I was 10 years old when we got to Mexico.

ALEX: So, do you remember your childhood?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Do you remember your house?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: How was it?

REBECCA: It was an apartment. It was a big, big building with lots of apartments, and we lived in one.

ALEX: Do you remember the street?

REBECCA: It has changed. It is no longer the same one.

ALEX: So, you don’t remember what it was called?

REBECCA: Soviestka Ulitsa

ALEX: How many were there in your family?

REBECCA: Us, it was just 4. It was my parents, my brother and myself.

ALEX: And, you left Minsk in 1924?

REBECCA: No, we left in the year 30. So, 1930.

ALEX: And, you were born in the year 1914, right?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: What did you do in Minsk? Did you go to school?

REBECCA: Yes, I went to school.

ALEX: What school did you go to?

REBECCA: It was a school provided by the government. Everything was by the government.

ALEX: Did they teach you Russian?

REBECCA: Yes, they taught us Russian.

ALEX: So, you speak Russian?

REBECCA: I did, but I’ve forgotten it. With time, I’ve forgotten it, but I had never spoken it here. There was never anybody to speak it with here.

ALEX: And, what about the house in (and?) Shtup?

REBECCA: No, there was no one to speak it with.

ALEX: (speaking in Russian? Translator believes he is asking REBECCA if she spoke Russian in her house)

REBECCA: Yes, we spoke Russian with our parents in the house.

ALEX: Did you have any other family members in Minsk?

REBECCA: Yes, I had many family members.

ALEX: Whose side of the family were they on? Were they on your mother’s, or your father’s?

REBECCA: Yes, they were from both. But, unfortunately, now there is nobody left.

ALEX: What happened to them? Did they come to Mexico?

REBECCA: No. But, there were a few that came. And, specifically, Dulzin, and that family was the Dulzin family. Mr. Dulzin, was my mother’s brother.

ALEX: And, he got to Mexico, right?

REBECCA: Yes, he came first. Because, here the Gitrins were already here. There were two sisters. And, they were both sisters. One was Gitrin, and the other was Dulzin. So, they were here. And, then we arrived in 1930.

ALEX: So, tell me aunt, did you get to read in Yiddish, or no?

REBECCA: No. We got to learn to read in Yiddish here. And, I love Yiddish.

TRANSLATOR: Yiddish is spoken by Alex. Asking where she learned to read in Yiddish. Did she learn to read Yiddish it in Mexico, and did she get to use it here. Then she is asked if she spoke used Yiddish in Russia, to which she says no, and uses a hand gesture to indicate there was no one to use it with there. Then she says she didn’t speak Yiddish in Shtup, she spoke Russian. They talk about Shtup and the mother and father. Then back to Spanish.

ALEX: Were you a religious family?

REBECCA: Yes. My father spent a lot of time in Lasha Shlevish. He knew a lot and studied a lot.

ALEX: That was in Minsk?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Was he born in Minsk?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: How about your mother?

REBECCA: Yes, her too.

ALEX: Was there any family member that stayed in Russia during the war?

REBECCA: Yes, there were many.

Translator: More Russian is spoken. They appear to be talking about her family that stayed in Russia during the war, and the reasons why. Continues for a minute or so.

ALEX: So, not many were left behind in Russia?

REBECCA: Well, I don’t really know how it was after the war. Maybe it was divided or something. Maybe Russia got a part, and Poland got a part?

ALEX: But, aunt, what happened to your family members who stayed in Minsk? What happened when the Germans got there?

REBECCA: They all disappeared.

ALEX: In the Holocaust?

REBECCA: Yes, all of them.

ALEX: And, they took them from Minsk?

REBECCA: No, they didn’t take them. Well, they… yeah. Translator: it is implied that they died during the Holocaust, and she did not want to talk about that.

ALEX: Okay, aunt. I understand. What do you remember from your childhood? Do you remember going to schul?

REBECCA: No, there weren’t any schuls.

ALEX: What about in your building? Were there only “eden”??, or was there a bit of everything?

REBECCA: There was a bit of everything.

ALEX: What about your family? Did they live nearby?

REBECCA: No.

ALEX: What about your cousins? Did they live near you?

REBECCA: No.

ALEX: So, you all were alone, right?

REBECCA: No, there were the Dulzins, but they lived very far.

ALEX: What did your Dad do?

REBECCA: My dad, in the Communist times, he had a little place where he would send stuff to a lot of people.

ALEX: And, that’s what your father dedicated himself to before the Communists, as well?

REBECCA: No, he was a commercialist, and he traded a lot.

TRANSLATOR: More Russian is spoken. Communism, and other terms…..Rebecca mentions “Shulin” and “Leiden”, and lists of other people… back to Spanish.

ALEX: Were the classes boys and girls?

REBECCA: No, it was mixed. The classes were mixed.

TRANSLATOR: More Russian. It appears they’re talking about going to Mexico. She mentions the Dulzins. Interviewer asks her mother and father, and she mentions her Uncle Dulzin. Interviewer asks her about the VISA to leave where they were.

ALEX: Were getting the visas and paperwork difficult?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Is that because they weren’t letting the people leave anymore?

REBECCA: Yes, they still let people leave. It was in the year 1928/1929. And, when the Dulzins got there my dad left with them.

ALEX: So, that left you, your brother, and your Mom, right?

REBECCA: Yes, just us.

ALEX: What was your Dad’s name?

REBECCA: Chaim.

ALEX: And your mother?

REBECCA; Toiba.

ALEX: What about your brother?

REBECCA: Yankif.

ALEX: Tell me aunt, he [father] left alone to Mexico?

REBECCA: He left with the Dulzins.

ALEX: And, how long were you guys alone, about a year?

REBECCA: Yes, about a year. My Dad worked here and sent us “shiftgahten”

ALEX: Do you remember the boat or ship ride when you left Minsk?

REBECCA: Yes, we went to Berlin.

ALEX: Do you remember Berlin, or no?

REBECCA: No.

ALEX: You went from Minsk to Berlin by train, right?

REBECCA: Yes. We were one of the last ones. After us, they didn’t let anybody leave. We were very lucky. It was in 1930.

ALEX: You go to Berlin and then?

REBECCA: No, first we got to Riga.

ALEX: Riga, Latvia?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: And, that was independent?

REBECCA: Yes. There all the Russians they took them to shower and disinfect, and we really enjoyed that; we liked that.

ALEX: And, how long was the trip from Minsk to Riga? Like a day?

REBECCA: Yes, it could be.

ALEX: So, you got to Riga, you showered. Did you stay there?

REBECCA: Yes. Then after that we took a train and we went to Paris.

TRANSLATOR: More Russian is spoken. From translator’s understanding, Alex is asking for confirmation that the train went from Riga to Berlin. REBECCA denies that saying she went from Riga to Paris.

ALEX: Do you remember the trip on the train?

REBECCA: On the train, no.

ALEX: Do you remember Paris, or no?

REBECCA: Yes, a little bit.

TRANSLATOR: Some more Russian is spoken. They are talking about her trip to Paris, and other things, that they saw on the trip he (translator) believes.

ALEX: There was a boat with ??? [French] immigrants? 9:06/9?58 CARLOS: WHAT IS THIS WORD??? XXXX

REBECCA: Yes. We went to Saint Lazare ? CARLOS/ALEX CHECK? [9:10/9?58]

ALEX: Do you remember the boat?

REBECCA: Yes, I remember, and I remember the city.

ALEX: And, how long was the trip? Or, how long did it take you to get there?

REBECCA: Two weeks.

ALEX: Ah, two weeks.

REBECCA: Yes, we got to Veracruz in 1930.

ALEX: It was your mom, your sister, your brother, and you?

REBECCA: Yes.

TRANSLATOR: More Russian is spoken. It appears they’re talking about her mom, immigrants, and they mention Cuba. It could be that they stopped there to drop off some immigrants? ALEX CHECK???? X

ALEX: And, were there people who got off in Cuba?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: And, they were from the same boat?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: But, your family didn’t.

REBECCA: No.

ALEX: But, others came, also, all the way to Mexico, right?

REBECCA: Yes, others did too.

ALEX: Do you remember any?

REBECCA: Some. A few of them.

ALEX: Did you all get to Veracruz?

REBECCA; Yes.

ALEX: Was your father waiting?

REBECCA: Yes, my father was waiting.

ALEX: Were you excited to see him?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: You hadn’t seen him for a year, correct?

REBECCA: Yes, that’s correct. He had already arranged for our arrival. He had an apartment waiting for us.

ALEX: That was in Vera Cruz?

REBECCA: No, that was in Mexico [City].

ALEX: So, you didn’t stay in Vera Cruz?

REBECCA; No, he had arranged a wardrobe and a couple of pieces of furniture for us.

ALEX: What was your impression of Mexico City when you got here. Was it a lot different?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: It wasn’t like Minsk, was it? Did the people look different?

REBECCA: I couldn’t talk. I couldn’t speak.

ALEX: And, your Dad already spoke Spanish?

REBECCA: Yes. He spoke a little bit.

TRANSLATOR: Yiddish is being spoken. You can clearly hear the word “sweaters” and maybe Denmark once or twice.

ALEX: Were there sweaters? Did the put the sweaters on the ground?

REBECCA: Yes, they put the sweaters on the ground in the market.

ALEX: Was there another “yiden” that helped them sell the sweaters.

REBECCA: Yes, there was another one. One helped another.

ALEX: Do you remember which house you got to in Mexico?

REBECCA: Yes, it was by the Mesed.

ALEX: Is that where your Dad worked? That’s where he had his sweaters, right? In the Mesed?

REBECCA: Yes, by the house, and every day he went by the markets. Because, every day there was another market.

ALEX: And, when you got to the house, did you continue to speak in Russian?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: What about Yiddish?

REBECCA: No.

ALEX: Did you mom and dad speak Yiddish?

REBECCA: Oh, Yes!

TRANSLATOR: More Yiddish is spoken. He thinks about the parents and what language that was spoken at home.

ALEX: So, they spoke in Yiddish and not Spanish?

REBECCA: Yes, Yiddish.

Alex: Do you remember when you were little, did you have Pesach, or Yom Kippur?

REBECCA: Oh, yes.

ALEX: Did they do those at home?

REBECCA: Yes.

Alex: Did they make “schloden”?

REBECCA: What?

Alex: Shloden, with the chickens?

REBECCA: Oh, yes.

Alex: Who made them, your mother?

Rebecca: No, my dad.

Alex: Your dad brought a chicken home?

REBECCA: Yes.

Alex: Were they alive?

REBECCA: Yes, they were alive.

ALEX: And, it didn’t scare you?

REBECCA; No.

Alex: What did they do with the chickens? Did they make scholdin?

Rebecca: They took it to the shoket.

ALEX: Did they do it in the house?

REBECCA: No, they did it in the market.

ALEX: So, there was a shoket at the market?

REBECCA: Yes, where they sold the chickens.

Alex: So, there was a shoket at the market where the sold the chickens? The merced? The market?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Do you remember the shul that was there?

REBECCA: Yes, the shul of Acapulco. No, the shul of Justo Sierra. That was there.

ALEX: Was there on of Husaria Dominquez?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: There was a shul?

REBECCA: Yes, because my father-in-law was the rolfe at Elasario Dominquez.

ALEX: Hiller?

REBECCA: Yes, Hiller.

Alex: But, when you got here, you weren’t married yet, right?

REBECCA: No, I wasn’t married.

Alex: But, you went to the shul?

REBECCA: Yes, because there was no other one.

ALEX: What did you do when you got to Mexico? Did you go to school?

REBECCA: Yes,

ALEX: Were you in public school?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Where was the school located?

REBECCA: It was close, near the house.

TRANSLATOR: More Yiddish spoken…

ALEX: Were there any other Jewish kids in your class?

REBECCA: Yes, there were those two.

ALEX: Do you remember them?

REBECCA: Yes, because it was a cheap school. So, more Jewish people lived there.

ALEX: So you took the regular courses there at school?

REBECCA: Yes, but it elementary there were no separate or different courses. Then in middle school there were different courses.

ALEX: And, you went to middle school?

REBECCA: Yes, middle school, and high school.

ALEX: What high school did you go to?

REBECCA: In Justo Sierra. Did you go to that one?

ALEX: No, I went to a Yiddish school where Hasha went. I did not go to Justo Sierra. Where did you learn Yiddish?

REBECCA: I learned alone; by myself. Because, I always wanted to know what this book meant and what it said, and I always asked. So, I had to teach myself to read it.

ALEX: And, nobody showed you?

REBECCA: No, I taught myself, and now I love it!

ALEX: Did you read books?

REBECCA: Yes.

Alex: What books did you read?

REBECCA: In Yiddish? The Sholamash and few others ones that I know. I read a lot. I like to read a lot.

ALEX: And, you like stories of the writers and authors, and you have books at home?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: And, your brothers spoke Yiddish, too?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: So, you went to middle school and high school.

REBECCA: Yes, then I went to the facultarie school in science.

ALEX: What interested you?

REBECCA: Everything! Everything that was unknown.

ALEX: Like what things, literature?

REBECCA: Yes, literature.

ALEX: What kind of literature? Latin American? American?

REBECCA: That, too! I read more Russian literature.

ALEX: Ah. So, Russian literature. Which ones?

REBECCA: The Tyevski’s, Pushkin. I don’t know. All of them!

Alex: Was there one you liked the most?

REBECCA: Oh yes. Tolgenin.

ALEX: Did you read Anna Karenina?

REBECCA: Yes, of course!

ALEX: Did you like it? Did you read it in Russian, or Spanish?

REBECCA: I read them in Spanish. I had forgotten the Russian.

ALEX: So you studied Philosophy and Writing? How long?

REBECCA: Two years.

ALEX: At the Facultary School of the National University, right?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Did you like it?

REBECCA: A lot!

ALEX: So, what happened? Why did you stop your career?

REBECCA: Who knows? It ended!

TRANSLATOR: The video was interrupted here for a bit.

Alex: When did you meet Uncle Abraham?

REBECCA: I met him one time at the shul?

ALEX: At the shul of Elasario Dominquez?

REBECCA: No, at Justo Sierra.

ALEX: He was there at shul?

REBECCA: Yes, he was there. My father and his father were good friends. My Dad really like the rolfe, because they really understood each other. The rolfe had alumini that went there.

ALEX: He had them at the house, or at shul?

REBECCA: At his house.

ALEX: Did your father go?

REBECCA: No, my father already knew all that. He knew as much as the rov. My dad made me a shidach with Admar Solomon, he was a very admirable man. My spouse he was nice, he was handsome.

ALEX: How old were you, aunt?

REBECCCA: I was 21 years old when I was married.

ALEX: How old was my uncle?

REBECCA: I think he was 27.

ALEX: Did he already have a career?

REBECCA; Yes, he already worked a lot. He was the son of the rov. Here he had an older brother, the oldest one in Mexico.

ALEX: What was his name?

REBECCA: Samuel. Then there was another brother, David. And, they were all in Mexico with their families. He also came over here. He came when he was younger; when he was single and a teenager he came to Mexico.

ALEX: He came to Mexico. And, he already worked when you met him?

REBECCA: Yes, he already had a business.

ALEX: Do you remember what business?

REBECCA: Yes, of course. We worked together. It was a thatoria, which in modern days is a tool shop, or a shop that sells household tools, utilities, and equipment. It was on the street of Corrigedora.

ALEX: What address? Do you remember?

REBECCA: Yes, 25.

ALEX: So, 25 Corrigedora? What was the name of the tool shop?

REBECCA: El Grande Tapaliro. He already had the name, and we didn’t want to change it.

ALEX: So, it was already named that way when you bought it, and you didn’t want to change it?

REBECCA: Yes! My husband was very, very hard working. He was so hard working it was scary!

ALEX: So, when you were working at 25 Corrigedora, where were you living?

REBECCA: We lived here in this community. We rented an apartment.

ALEX: In the community Condessa?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Did you and he take a bus to work?

REBECCA: Yes, but then he bought a car.

ALEX: So, you then travelled by car?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: So, then you worked there with him at the shop?

REBECCA: Yes, I brought him food, because he had issues with his stomach.

ALEX: Did you eat kosher at home?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Was there a place on Corrigedora where you could eat kosher?

REBECCA: Yes. Of course, there was a place. There were a lot of Jewish people on that street.

ALEX: So, there were kosher restaurants?

REBECCA: Yes, there were one or two. But, I took him food every day.

ALEX: And, you took the bus, and took the food.

REBECCA: Yes, I took the bus here on the corner with the bag of food.

ALEX: Did you eat with him?

REBECCA: No.

ALEX: You came back? Returned to the house?

REBECCA: No, I wouldn’t come back. I would eat at the Liverpool Port. I would go out. I didn’t like being in there (tool shop?)

ALEX: There was a place to eat at Liverpool?

REBECCA: Yes, there was a restaurant.

Alex: Did you eat there alone?

REBECCA: Yes, but I made friends with some of the people I would see there every day.

ALEX: That was nearby the shop?

REBECCA: Yes, because that was Corrigedora, and Liverpool was close.

ALEX: And, with the uncle, did you speak in Spanish or Yiddish?

REBECCA: We spoke in both languages. When we didn’t want anybody to understand us, we spoke in Yiddish. When it didn’t matter, we spoke in Spanish.

Alex: Then Stelsita came, right? And, you had to take care of her.

REBECCA: Yes, of course.

ALEX: So, what did uncle do about the food. You were busy with the girl, so you couldn’t bring the food.

REBECCA: He would send a man for the food.

ALEX: To come here for the food?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: So, he sent a man here to come for the food, and you wouldn’t have to go.

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: When Stelsita was born, did you live in the same apartment, or did you move?

REBECCA: No, in the same one.

ALEX: When did you move to the house? You had a house right? On the street of Michlaquan.

REBECCA: Yes, that’s right.

ALEX: When did you have this house?

REBECCA: After when the kids were much older. I had my son, Hiler, and I have a younger daughter, too. Do you know the girl?

ALEX: Yes, aunt, I know all three of them.

REBECCA: Oh, good!

ALEX: So, then you had this house. Uncle’s brother lived nearby. He lived on 128 of the same street, right?

REBECCA: Yes, because they were co-workers to begin with, then he left, they separated.

ALEX: Did they talk to Uncle Samuel.

REBECCA: Yes, of course, with Uncle Samuel.

ALEX: What about Aunt Sonia?

REBECCA: Yes.

Alex: And, with her sons?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: And, what about Aunt Stempa? Do you remember Aunt Stempa? Did they talk to her?

REBECCA: Yes, they also had a similar shop, and sold the same things.

ALEX: Aunt, did you ever return to Minsk?

REBECCA; Yes.

ALEX: You went back to Minsk?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: When was that?

REBECCA: About 10 years ago.

ALEX: How was the visit?

REBECCA: I went with my husband. We went to Minsk. It was all changed. It was different. During the war they killed everybody and they destroyed everything. Since, then it’s a different city. They built a new city, like a model city. It’s very pretty. But, what I was looking for, I didn’t find a thing.

ALEX: Your street wasn’t there?

REBECCA: The street was there, but it had a different name.

ALEX: And, what about the building that you lived in?

REBECCA: No, it wasn’t’ there anymore. The Germans destroyed everything.

ALEX: There weren’t any Jews in Minsk when you went back.

REBECCA: No.

ALEX: Did you go to the cemetery?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Was there a Yiddish cemetery.

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: And, did you know any of the names in the cemetery?

REBECCA: Yes. I found a woman that had known me.

ALEX: In Minsk?

REBECCA: Yes, in Minsk.

ALEX: Did she talk about what she saw happen?

REBECCA: Yes, she did. Of course, it was very interesting.

ALEX: Did you go to Poland?

REBECCA; No, my husband didn’t want to.

ALEX: Do you continue reading Yiddish?

REBECCA: Yes, only Yiddish. I LOVE Yiddish!

Alex: What do you like about it?

REBECCA: I don’t know. I feel like it’s mine; like it belongs to me.

ALEX: And, it elementary school, did you read in Yiddish?

REBECCA: No, we read in Spanish.

ALEX: Do you have people you can still speak Yiddish with? Do you have friends who still speak Yiddish?

REBECCA: Yes, I have a few.

ALEX: Aunt, how often do you see your kids?

REBECCA: Very often.

ALEX: Do they come and visit you?

REBECCA: No, I go visit them. And, sometimes they come visit me. I see my son every once in a while. He works nearby. He brings movies. He goes and collects movies. He goes where they make the movies.

ALEX: Hollywood?

REBECCA: No. Europe.

ALEX: At the festivals?

REBECCA: Yes. And, his son does, too.

ALEX: What’s the name of his son?

REBECCA: David. David Chelminsky.

ALEX: Like the brother of Uncle Abraham?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Does he have any other sons?

REBECCA: My son has two, a daughter and a son.

ALEX: And, you have a daughter in Israel?

REBECCA: Yes, a daughter in Israel.

ALEX: And how many sons does she have.

REBECCA: She has 3. Two daughters, and one son.

ALEX: And, have you seen them?

REBECCA: Yes, very often. Before, I used to go every year, but now I can’t, because, I can’t walk well.

ALEX: Do you go out?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Where do you go?

REBECCA: I go to the park to walk.

ALEX: Do you see people you know at the park?

REBECCA: Sometimes.

ALEX: And, do your kids come and take you to their house?

REBECCA: Yes, mostly my daughter. She mostly invites me over to come eat with them. Thank god they’re all fine and healthy. One of my daughters works at the University in Israel.

ALEX: Aunt, do you remember your first trip to Israel?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: What year was that?

REBECCA: I don’t remember.

ALEX: Was your daughter living there when you went for the first time?

REBECCA: No. I went with her.

ALEX: Did you like it?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Did you visit lots of places?

REBECCA: Yes.

ALEX: Did you speak Hebrew?

REBECCA: No. One or two words.

ALEX: Did your Dad speak Hebrew?

REBECCA: Yes, he did.

ALEX: What about your mother?

REBECCA: No.

ALEX: But, your Dad did?

REBECCA: Yes, he spoke it very well. He studied and learned it all his life.

ALEX: Where, at Yeshiva?

REBECCA: Yes, at many yeshiva’s

.

ALEX: OK , Aunt

END OF INTERVIEW